Starting problems are baaaaaack

"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck) 06/09/2020 at 22:25 • Filed to: A post that isn't about perlatiks? This has no place on Oppo!, Vibe 2020

3

31

After X days... maybe a week?... of no issues starting after fuel pump replacement, the car pulled the rug out from under me.

It took my wife 9 attempts to get it to fire up leaving Target. Once we got it home, it wouldn’t start at all, which has never happened, even on a bad day. Crankcrankcrank, no fire. So I pushed into the garage and gave her the keys to the Paseo.

I tested the battery. Again. And the fuses. Again. And the codes. None. Anything missing or loose. Nope. Checked the MAF sensor, even. Oof.

Time to load the parts cannon — again!

Soon, I’ll have entire new ignition system. Crankshaft position sensor, camshaft position sensor, plugs, fuel pump, and coils. Plugs were done in February and the fuel pump just a week or so ago. New coils came in the mail last night so that’s what I did today.

I very much doubt they were bad, but what the hell do I know? Based on my recent repair posts: JACK SHIT. This is the first car I ever bought that didn’t have a distributor. I probably should have just replaced them when I changed the spark plugs. They’re cheap, it’s an easy job, and I guess they are 12 years old.

I was going to wait for the two sensors to arrive, but I got impatient. I slapped the car back together and turned the key. Started right up. Bastard! False hope! Not this time. I don’t trust you, demon Corolla!

Well anyway, thanks as always for reading.

CB > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/09/2020 at 22:28

2

You should start adding holy water to your gasoline, like how rotary owners add oil.

Chariotoflove > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/09/2020 at 22:30

3

I’m starting to think you might just live longer with a Tercel wagon after all.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/09/2020 at 22:39

0

How are t he grounding straps?

facw > Chariotoflove 06/09/2020 at 22:44

10

If only you had known it would be a stalled Vibe that would get him instead of a Tercel:

Cash Rewards > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/09/2020 at 22:44

2

Maybe rotary swap it. You know, for reliability's sake

jminer > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/09/2020 at 22:46

1

This is always the worse - troubleshooting an intermittent issue. Good luck with the parts cannon and hope it fixes it.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 06/09/2020 at 22:48

2

They seem fine! Everything seems fine!

Fiiiiiiiiine!!!!!!!!

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/09/2020 at 22:52

5

Have you considered the security system? The key chip or the gizmo that reads the key may be dying. Many cars will crank but not start if they don’t detect a correct key, and a non-functioning chip/reader will cause the same symptoms.

Jayvincent > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/09/2020 at 22:56

2

your parts cannon plan is right on the mark.... sensors and coils are notorious for intermittent start or stall issues and hard to diagnose. I’d check the ground strap as gmporschenut also a fan of hondas   suggested and run some seafoam or injector cleaner thru the gastank just in case, but I’ve never seen a clogged injector cause a failure to start... One last clue is your account of failure to re-start once hot (after drive to/from target) which is usually electronics: sensors and coils. Good luck and good snipe hunting

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 06/09/2020 at 22:59

2

An interesting hypothesis! I have two keys, my wife’s getting much more use than the spare. I suppose I could swap them out along with all my part swaps and see if that does anything. When my wife’s car wouldn’t start at all, I don’t know if I used hers or the spare before pushing it into the garage...

glemon > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/09/2020 at 23:00

1

Re: “first car I bought without a distributor”. Modern fuel injection and electronic engine management are wonderful, reliable things, until they aren’t. I have no guidance, go online and read as many forum posts about what goes wrong most frequently. I agree about false hope, four coils, unless 3-4 of them were bad, it still would have started before, though it would have run like crap.

For Sweden > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/09/2020 at 23:01

0

This reminds me of the GM Quad-4.  All four coils fit inside a plastic housing.  The plastic housing insulation would fail just enough to cause misfires, but not enough to detect with a consumer multimeter.  The only solution is to swap parts and hope for the best.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/09/2020 at 23:01

0

Swapping keys will definitely be a good test to run.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > glemon 06/09/2020 at 23:03

0

And no codes for bad coils, and it runs perfectly fine IF you can get it to fire up. I’ve about ran out of parts to buy for the ignition system on rockauto, so what’s another few dozen dollars?

[Cries]

Chariotoflove > facw 06/09/2020 at 23:07

1

Right!  Either way, “betrayed by Toyota” seems like such an unlikely epitaph.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/09/2020 at 23:08

0

Any corrosion where they connect to the chassis? The strap ground post  can get galvanic corrosion and loose conductivity.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/09/2020 at 23:11

1

Also I know in some cars the security system powers up before the ECU, and the ECU will never get power until the security system “passes” the key. You would never get a code for a faulty security system because you can only read a code if it’s functioning normally.

Chariotoflove > For Sweden 06/09/2020 at 23:14

1

I didn’t know that about the Quad-4. The Cutlass Supreme I ended up getting had  the 6. TIL...

Chariotoflove > Cash Rewards 06/09/2020 at 23:15

1

Ouch!

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 06/09/2020 at 23:16

4

How convenient, but also too convenient 

I will swap the keys after I’m done swapping parts.

When that doesn’t work, I’m going to do one of these:

HoustonRunner > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/09/2020 at 23:20

0

Great reference!

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/09/2020 at 23:20

3

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/09/2020 at 23:31

2

A way you can check for it* is to turn the key to ON and listen for the fuel pump. Typically the ECU controls the relay for the fuel pump. If the pump doesn’t come on then the ECU isn’t powering up.

*Again, this is my limited experience with some models. I don’t know if all cars work this way and have no idea if it’s applicable for you.

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/09/2020 at 23:42

0

I had an 87 Volvo 240 do that. Turned out to be the relay to the ECU. No power means no squirt.

Bylan - Hoarder of LS400's > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 06/10/2020 at 03:27

1

Lexus should work exactly like this, in fact the fuel pump i’ m pretty certain has its own ecu as well.

Victorinoo > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/10/2020 at 08:49

0

When it was not starting did you check for spark and fuel? 

shop-teacher > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/10/2020 at 09:23

0

Well sheeeeeeit!

The key thing is a good thing to pay attention to, if it happens again. As are bad grounds.

Brickman > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/10/2020 at 09:31

1

Have you taken a look at the crankshaft and/or camshaft sensor? Engine cant fire the spark plugs if it doesnt know what position the crank and cam is.

Testing them are not easy as most likely in a hard to reach area and you have to probe the wire and turn the engine over by hand to read the 5v - 0v as the hall effect sensor reads on the volt meter.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Brickman 06/10/2020 at 09:40

2

I've already ordered both of those, should be arriving tomorrow. Gonna replace them because why not.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Victorinoo 06/10/2020 at 10:20

0

Yes, and I had both FROWNY  FACE dot PNG

Victorinoo > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/10/2020 at 10:29

0

I have had two no starts on my Toyota’s (manual 5sfe camry and automatic 1mzfe Lexus es300) both also had spark and fuel. Cause 1. Bad coolant temp sensor was reading -40F, saw it on scanner replaced it and fixed it (it had no codes. Cause two was gummed up idle air control valve. Diagnosis was holding throttle slightly while cranking and she fired right up. Repair was carb cleaner through the iac. Hope this helps.